Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"Paul, thank you for so much for speaking with us today.

Just to start off, how did you get into property management services? What appealed to you about the built environment?"

Paul Bagust:

"I've been with RICS for a long time, 20 years or so and I worked for a property management firm in the West and City of London. It’s not an easy job. It's tough, but the most enjoyable part is that you get to meet and work with many interesting people. It's a people business and those sorts of things you must align with having excellent knowledge and technical ability. It's a complex industry; however people who tend to do well, have solid people skills, which I think is appealing.

With RICS, I moved into content creation and my role is about engaging with the sector and working with highly skilled professionals who do amazing things.

Also, from an economic perspective - certainly from a social and environmental perspective - things have changed. People understand it's imperative to have highly competent staff involved in running buildings and the complex supply chain. It's an exciting industry to be involved in."

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"I can imagine. So you said about engagement, what does that look like for you to ensure that things have been adhered to a certain standard?”

Paul Bagust:

"Well, we work with many different stakeholders. Part of my role is developing standards that don't just appear out of nowhere. These result from engagement with industry thought leadership papers to working with senior stakeholders. We don't just make them up, so a lot of that activity involves understanding how the sector works.

We're not an FM organization, but FM is an essential part of us. We've property owners, investors, developers, valuers, residential, commercial, land agents and construction professionals. When you bring all that together you get a good understanding of issues in the built environment and equally engage with policymakers, civil servants and government ministers.

You get a range of perspectives on issues and start thinking about how to address them. Whether it's standards, guidance, information, thought, leadership frameworks, research – those are the outcomes you'd work out, but it's really about being across issues by talking to a range of people”

Holly Lochinger | MyFM:

"How do you prioritize all those peoples’ needs, opinions and thoughts - how do you navigate that?”

Paul Bagust:

"There are fundamental real estate issues, like leasing and service charges, compulsory purchase and planning, FM contracts and procurement. So, understanding those basics fundamental to the property industry functioning is essential. And then other issues would emerge around that. For example, people might discuss sustainability or ESG in a broader context.

How does that apply? What does that mean for leases? What does that mean for service charges? What's the new content that's going to develop? What are the new skills? Ensuring professionals have the right competence to deliver clients' needs is essential.

How do we attract people to the profession based on these issues? Specific things remain constant but also problems that burn quite brightly that we weren't talking about a few years ago, that we're very much talking about now.

So, it's a case of staying on top of what people tell us, what clients need and want. It's a people industry; you must talk to as many people as possible.”

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"As you mentioned, we constantly seek feedback from clients, associates and stakeholders. We all have that responsibility, and we just can't bury our heads in the sand, right? We need to be aware of what's happening".

Paul Bagust:

"It's important to stress how the built environment is critical to our economic and social well-being.

How funds are invested, used, and managed and topics such as school safety and fabric of buildings, well-being, and understanding the users better and their health. These are issues which are still not widely discussed enough today.

We're all learning and evolving as a profession, which is excellent and adding significant value through a better understanding of the issues, but there's much more to do.”

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"I agree. Paul, would you mind telling us a little more about your current project or any upcoming ones?”

Paul Bagust:

"We've been keen on a few issues, for example sick pay. For instance, people may not necessarily have certain employment rights (this is within FM's role) and can’t access sick pay and doctor's appointments without worrying about loss of income. So these are significant issues that sit within procurement and when you look at the role of the built environment, it has a massive impact on millions.

We did a paper “Responsible Business”, heavily led by the FM professionals and looked at the application of the environmental social governance factors and how that's reflected in the services provided by the FM professionals. It's a bit like the living wage conversation we had a few years ago and issues such as modern slavery.

Moving forward, these will have huge implications, and I think it's a huge responsibility of our industry to ensure we look after vulnerable people.”

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"Yes, it's just basic ethics as well. Looking at all that information, how do you make decisions and how does that work for you? It's a lot to take on board”

Paul Bagust:

"Yes, it is. You know, you would traditionally measure cost, space and quantity. I'm increasingly interested in how you measure other things such as experience and social value.

We produced a building operation standard last year and put together a range of data we'd need information on to understand the entire performance of a building.

Critical information you collect from air quality, noise, light, heat, linking it to your sustainability and well-being strategy and the user. I think the ability to create content that enables you to measure and benchmark is something I'm interested in doing more of, as I believe the industry needs to utilize data better.

That's a lot of work around data, but we could do more around better benchmarking. I think we'll have to forge meaningful benchmarking so that we can look at buildings and say "That's a high-performing building."

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"That's great to hear. Also, you mentioned government protocol, guidelines and framework vs. client, saying, “We'd like to do this or achieve that”. All these different things needed to consider, how much leeway do you have and how does it all fit together?”

Paul Bagust:

"In terms of commercial property there’s not been a massive statutory compliance environment. A lot is left to professionals to develop and evolve.

Measuring building performance is not just as simple as it might sound. It involves a range of indicators that display the building's performance, which can impact value, cost and pricing, which will be essential for the economy. So, having well-run facilities is critical.

15 years ago, workplace design and productivity seemed quite novel, but now it's a complete fundamental of any building - to understand the environment in which your people are working. Should we create different work zones? How do we better understand our people and their workplace expectations? How can we create spaces where people could do well and that's not just offices.

You look at schools and how classrooms are structured and run these days. People pay much more attention to structure, air quality, lighting and these things impact you. The industry has moved on a lot and has embraced that change and there are so many different people involved, not just facility managers.

You've got people who are data analysts and you've got people who are almost like psychologists in terms of understanding, well-being and health. All these people constitute the fundamentals of ensuring buildings work effectively. So, there are so many moving parts to this profession.”

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"Have you got an example of a particular business case where you've gone in and been able to do some innovative, creative work that's been very rewarding?”

Paul Bagust:

"Yes, we work with a lot of firms. We're working on one in the Middle East, which is doing a brilliant project embedding the IBOS concept into all their systems to run it on about 404 schools in Abu Dhabi. Schemes like these are fantastic- it's a great example.

We did a lot of work with Sodexo and the police service - they've been tremendous. We’ve also worked with universities like Belfast Queen's University, and because all these buildings were different, it was exciting to operate.

Creating an environment where people are productive, happy & safe is vital. The basic principle is the same, but the implementation can differ entirely. Universities are exciting - environments where people have changed their expectations over the years".

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"Yes, people are always looking for the next best thing, aren't they?”

Paul Bagust:

"People are always looking. It's about psychology. Great buildings make you feel something; that's the psychology part and people are beginning to understand that.

So, you walk into one of these fantastic buildings and think “Wow, this makes me feel amazing, right”? It's the building that's making you feel that way. But if the basics, like the room, feels too hot or cold or unpleasant, you might not go back and it's not a place you’d want to work or invest in.

People understand the connection and link between building design, the creation of the space and implementation. The relationship between FM construction and design fraternities can be critical for the industry to evolve through innovation. Great collaboration makes the innovation work".

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"How did COVID affect things overall? I bet there was just chaos, wasn't there?"

Paul Bagust:

"It was busy because we did a lot of work with the government, which was particularly interesting. The landlord and tenant debate was about the ability of a business to pay rent effectively, and that was a policy issue.

This led to various government codes amongst other things. There was a piece around developing dispute resolution procedures between a landlord and tenant and speeding up the process. During the COVID period, the FM industry performed amazingly, on a practical level - such as ensuring buildings are open.

So what do we do now with the buildings and how do we get people back to offices?

The challenge for FM professionals was and is creating better environments as people will only return to quality buildings that promote a collaborative environment, clean and well-maintained. There's a real challenge for the industry to step up and respond as people now are more educated about what they expect from buildings"

Holly Lochinger | MyFM

"Would you say the transition period is still very much underway, or do you think it's over now with people discussing this? I suppose COVID-19 highlighted the concept of space and the distance between desks and so on”

Paul Bagust:

"Work environments have to deliver and that's what needs to be measured.

You'll need to know how big the area is, how many desks you have, the current distance between the spaces, or how many people are in the room. You need all that information to develop the strategy. Then, you need to measure the impact of the process. So, you would say that measurement data is the crucial piece and as you move forward, you would say, "OK, so we've created this environment", and then you have to ask the people how you feel about it.

If you don't have that information, you can't improve, review, refresh and implement. It's just a constant process and that's good. You can always see what you should be looking at, but you should base that on evidence and data and then you'll be much better placed.”